If chance be the Father of all flesh

Speaking of creeds, I came across this poem by Steve Turner, which is a great satire on our pluralistic culture (Thanks Ravi!). Check out the post script at the bottom...what a great thought on the futility of chance. According to Wikipedia, “Steve Turner is an English music journalist, biographer and poet. His articles have appeared in Rolling Stone, Mojo, Q, and The Times. He resides in London with his wife and two children. He has been writing poetry since the 1970s."

Creed
by Steve Turner

This is the creed I have written on behalf of all us.

We believe in Marxfreudanddarwin
We believe everything is OK
as long as you don't hurt anyone,
to the best of your definition of hurt,
and to the best of your knowledge.

We believe in sex before, during, and after marriage.
We believe in the therapy of sin.
We believe that adultery is fun.
We believe that sodomy is OK.
We believe that taboos are taboo.

We believe that everything is getting better
despite evidence to the contrary.
The evidence must be investigated
And you can prove anything with evidence.

We believe there's something in
horoscopes, UFO's and bent spoons;
Jesus was a good man
just like Buddha, Mohammed, and ourselves.
He was a good moral teacher
although we think His good morals were bad.

We believe that all religions are basically the same--
at least the one that we read was.
They all believe in love and goodness.
They only differ on matters of
creation, sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.

We believe that after death comes the Nothing
Because when you ask the dead what happens they say nothing.
If death is not the end, if the dead have lied,
then it's compulsory heaven for all
excepting perhaps Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Khan.

We believe in Masters and Johnson.
What's selected is average.
What's average is normal.
What's normal is good.

We believe in total disarmament.
We believe there are direct links between warfare and bloodshed.
Americans should beat their guns into tractors
and the Russians would be sure to follow.
We believe that man is essentially good.
It's only his behavior that lets him down.
This is the fault of society.
Society is the fault of conditions.
Conditions are the fault of society.

We believe that each man must find the truth that is right for him.
Reality will adapt accordingly.
The universe will readjust.
History will alter.
We believe that there is no absolute truth
excepting the truth that there is no absolute truth.

We believe in the rejection of creeds,
and the flowering of individual thought.

"Chance" a post-script

If chance be the Father of all flesh,
disaster is his rainbow in the sky,
and when you hear
State of Emergency!
Sniper Kills Ten!
Troops on Rampage!
Whites go Looting!
Bomb Blasts School!
It is but the sound of man worshiping his maker.

More Steve Turner Poems here:
http://www.rejesus.co.uk/expressions/steve_turner/poemindex.html

The Consumer Culture within Seeker-Oriented Churches

When people ask me what I believe about seeker-oriented churches like Willow Creek, Saddleback, Northpoint, Fellowship Church etc., I am quick to point out their benefits. I am thankful for these seeker-oriented churches because of their passion for the local church and their passion to win the lost. It is important that the Church (capital “C”) recognizes and values the strengths in churches with different emphasizes in strategy or theology. Some may say, “Yeah, but do they speak in tongues?” Give me a break, are you serious?!? I highly value the ability to pray in the Spirit (in tongues), but where in the world did we get the idea that speaking in tongues is the absolute validation of orthodoxy?

I have no problem joining hands with other church traditions as long as they acknowledge: (1) the absolute authority of the Scripture as our final authority on matters of faith and practice; (2) the ethical supremacy of love for God and neighbor; and (3) adherence to the Nicene Creed. I believe that strength, depth and growth in Christ comes as a result of opening our eyes to what God is doing in other church traditions. That does not mean that I agree with everything that other traditions believe or practice, but I have expanded my theological horizons by opening up to guys doing ministry outside of my little theological/ecclesiastical circle.

Let me comment on the Creed for a second. The Nicene Creed (actually the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed—the original creed was written in 325AD and then edited in 381) forms the boundaries for our belief system. If the Bible is the current to the river of Orthodoxy, then the creed forms the banks. Here is the creed to see if you are in “the River.”

Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty
Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, eternally begotten from the father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in Being with the Father, through whom all things came into being.

Who because of us men and because of our salvation came down from the heaven and became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, becoming man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; suffered and was buried.

On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures he ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Ok, back to seeker churches…

So for all of the passion in seeker-oriented churches, the weakness of their strategy is that they create a consumer culture within the church. By this I mean that they create a “what’s-in-it-for-me” vibe within the local church. The needs and desires of the unchurched person drive the evangelistic strategy of these churches. The problem is that Christians begin to pick up the message that the whole idea of the local church is to feed their needs. So Consumer Christians look for a church where they feel comfortable. They look for a church that will serve their kids, their teenagers, their grandmamma. They ask of their local church, “What have you done for me lately? (Ooooooh, ooooooh, ooooooh, yeah!)” Consumer Christians may wrap their self-absorbed seeking in a spiritual guise, but bottom line they think the church is about them getting their needs met. Oh brother!

Darrell Guder in Missional Church says that these kind of churches become “vendors of religious goods and services.” Most seeker churches do not really want to be just a “vendor,” but that is the unfortunate byproduct of a seeker-oriented ministry. Their intension is to be culturally relevant, which I think is the goal of all evangelistically-minded churches. Nevertheless, I do not believe the seeker model is the way. I think the missional model is…

The missional model sees the local church as a mission base in its local community. Pastors and teachers in missional churches are trying to be good missionaries in their indigenous contexts. In trying to be a good missionary, missional pastors start with God and theological truth and try to contextualize those truths in culturally clear ways. The difference with the missional model is that these communicators start with God and end with God. He is both the starting point (not the needs of seekers) and he is the goal (not the satisfaction of Christians). Essentially, missional pastors in the US are trying to do what international missionaries have done for years. The missional approach is really being put into practice by a number of emerging churches. I was talking to a couple of pastors about the missional model this week and I googled it and I found, who else, but my old friend Mark Driscoll talking about this very idea. These videos are in the same spot that the “Chicks and Dudes” video is located, but click below if you would like to hear Mark compare the seeker church vs. the missional church. There are two short videos to look at:

Seeker vs. Missional Part 1

Seeker vs. Missional Part 2

See all of the Mark Driscoll videos here

Responding to the “Signs of the Seeker-Sensitive Movement”

The following is my thoughts on the so-called signs of the SSM (seeker sensitive movement) that appeared in a letter to the editor in our local paper, the Americus Times Recorder. (Read the entire letter for the context -- http://derekvreeland.blogspot.com/2006/08/destructive-nature-of-seeker-sensitive.html). For the sake of brevity, I am going to give each of the “signs” a title.

1) New buildings
The issue behind new buildings is more of a question of function. Historical church buildings have a lot of nostalgic value, but can create a lot of modern head aches – electrical problems, parking problems, ventilation problems, plumbing problems, and lack of space for audio and visual equipment. Other problems include space for youth and children, which were not local church concepts 100 years ago. There are a lot of practical and functional reasons for churches to build new buildings. I think a lot of Christian do not like it when a church builids a new building, because they are envious.

2) Church logos
How many churches actually have a logo? This one isn’t really a theological issue, but if somebody wants to make it into a theological issue then I would say that the more contemporary cross that are “a little sloppier in design” would be closer to the cross of Christ than the crosses in most churches today (mine included) with the clean lights and geographic symmetry. Are contemporary logos destroying the church? I don't think so.

3) Targeting a certain demographic
The SSM has been criticized for years for leaning too much on marketing techniques. There is some merit there (more on this later), but is it wrong when a church targets a certain demographic such as 20 – 40 year olds? I would say no. I think the issue is a matter of stewardship and strategy. First, how is a local church going to be a good steward of her time, buildings, programs, money, staff, etc.? Second, how strategic is it to target younger people who may be more open to accepting Christ than older people? The issue is not so much do we focus on the old people are not. Old people can still be ministered to even if younger people are the target. You can do ministry in both demographics. Jesus did this for a time. He told his orginal disciples to go to the house of Israel only when they were first preaching. Then in the Apostolic Church we see Paul with a targeted ministry to Gentiles and Peter with a targeted ministry on Jews.

4) New Age Movement
This one is a bit puzzling. I do not know of a seeker-oriented church that embraces new age practices. I do not know of a seeker-oriented church that would not be classified theologically within the evangelical Christian tradition. As evangelicals, they hold to the doctrine of the exclusivity of Christ—Jesus is the only way. No crystals. No swammies. No Shirley McClain.

5) Changes
All churches must change or die. That is a reality. Our core doctrine doesn’t change, but if a local church is going to faithfully communicate the gospel to an ever changing culture, then the church will have to change—not what it believes—but how it communicates. If you do not want change in your church then become a monk, live in a cave and bake your own bread. Change is a culturally reality. If the Church did not believe in change then we would all still be speaking Latin when we went to church. confitemini Domino! (That's Latin for "praise the Lord!")

6) Resistors in the church
There is a point of decision on behalf of church members in relationship to the direction being taken by the church leaders. I believe in dialogue and discussion between church members and church leaders, but there comes a time when church members needs to say “Yes I am on board” or “No I am not.” And if they are not, then they should find a different local church--one that fits them better. The beauty of the body of Christ is that there are many different local churches with different values, strategies, vibes and styles. If a person is not walking in harmony with the vision or direction of a local church and they want to stick around and complain about it – then by all means the church leaders should ask them to leave.

7) The Purpose Driven Life (PDL)
The PDL has run its course. Much like The Prayer of Jabez, it has come and gone. We all read it and now we are sitting back waiting for the next big thing. (I bet it will be an Andy Stanley book!) PDL was a good read. It is a good overview of the five purposes for the church: Worship, Discipleship, Fellowship, Ministry & Missions. Good stuff. I can’t argue with Pastor Rick Warren’s vision of the Church. Again you can critique certain parts of Warren, but overall he is thoroughly biblical and orthodox. Don’t listen to the conspiracy theorists who want to make him into some kind of wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Willow Creek started this whole seeker-sensitive deal. I tell a recent story about Willow’s pastor, Bill Hybels in a recent blog (http://derekvreeland.blogspot.com/2006/08/my-response-to-destructive-nature-of.html)

8) Feel-good activities
SSM churches do promote feel-good activities. The strategy is debatable, but these activities are considered pre-evangelism. I love the strategy. The thought is to plan events at your church that would attract people who are not Christians, events such as concerts, recreational activities, picnics, etc. SSM churches do this so that Christians can build relationships with non-Christians in order to win them to Christ. I find that most churches (SSM influenced or not) have similar kind of “feel-good” relationship-building activities. Typically this is called “fellowship” although biblical fellowship includes more than just sitting down and eating fried chicken.

9) Broken relationships
I absolutely hate it when Christians lose relationships with friends who disagree over matters of the church. I hate it, but I know it happens. To prevent it I have found that it is good to have an open mind when people talk about their strategies in doing church. It is good to listen. It is good to allow for some freedom in doing church. It is good not recognize the difference between theology and strategy. A certain strategy can shape your theology, but it is good not to over-spiritualize strategy. In the end if an agreement cannot be reached and the disagreement is intolerable, then separation is the unfortunate last option.

10) The Message Bible
I am a fan of The Message Bible. It was written by Eugene Peterson, a very biblical and very careful pastoral theologian. The Message Bible is great when it is used for the purpose in which Peterson wrote it. In an interview, Peterson was asked if he read his own translation, The Message Bible. He said that he doesn’t, but that he wrote it for other people. He said in his own devotions he reads from the Hebrew and Greek text (how cool is that!). He explains that he wrote it to be a supplemental tool (my wording) to communicate the gospel in a post-Christian world. I know all of the “KJV only” people begin to salivate and get ready to rumble when we begin to talk about other translations of the Bible, but the church has nothing to fear from The Message Bible. I would only add that it is good to use it as a secondary translation and not the primary translation that you use for devotions and teaching. I think Peterson, the author, would concur. And this is how it is used in most churches.

There is more on the SSM to come! I do want to discuss what I think is the biggest weakness of the SSM. It is because of this weakness, that I do not consider myself a SSM guy. Nevertheless, I support the SSM as another orthodox expression of God’s church and one of many ways of doing church in our world.

My response to "The 'destructive' nature of the seeker-sensitive movement"

This is my response to the letter in our paper about the seeker-sensitive movment. My position is that the movement as a whole does not need to be feared, but it (like most man-made systems) is flawed. I did not have space in my letter to the editor to respond to each of the "ten signs that your church is being destroyed by the seeker-sensitive movement," but hopefully I can blog a response soon. Here is the letter that I wrote to the Americus Times Recorder editor:

A recent letter to the editor described the signs of the “destructive” nature of the seeker sensitive movement within the Christian church. Seeker-oriented churches are not without their weaknesses, but they are certainly not destructive. The term “seeker-sensitive” was made popular by Willow Creek Community Church, which began in the 1970s, under the leadership of Bill Hybels. A “seeker” refers to a person who is searching for truth, God, fulfillment, etc. and “seeker-oriented” churches look for creative ways to reach out them. Willow Creek has consistently held to the value of being “culturally relevant and doctrinally pure.” Seeker churches do not try to redefine the nature of the local church, rather they have used, and continue to use, innovative methods in an attempt to proclaim the message of Christ to those who do not know him.

Innovators who hold to the historical, biblical Christian faith and who suggest new ways of communicating God’s word have historically been criticized. In the 14th century John Wycliffe was criticized because he translated the Bible into English so that it could be understood among the common people of England. John Wesley and George Whitefield were criticized for preaching outdoors in open fields in the 18th century. Wesley was further criticized for organizing Christians into “bands” or “classes,” which looks similar to the small group Bible studies of today. William Carey was criticized in the early 18th century for traveling to India were he served for forty-one years as a pioneer missionary. Hudson Taylor, another 18th century English missionary, was criticized for wearing indigenous Chinese dress while serving in China. In the 19th century, Charles Finney was criticized for wearing pants (when most minister wore robes), using common language in his sermons, and urging “convicted sinners” to move to the “anxious seat”—the precursor to the altar call. One minister said, “If Finney comes to my town I will appose him with a cannon!” Early Pentecostals of the 20th century were described as “the lost vomit of Satan” because they dared to pray for spiritual power and for the healing of the sick. And Oral Roberts was criticized for putting Pentecostalism on TV in the 1950s.

Since the 1980s, seeker-oriented pastors like Hybels and Rick Warren have been criticized for changing the essence and message of the Christian church, which they certainly have not done. Nevertheless, like Wycliffe, Wesley, Carey, Taylor, Finney, and Roberts, they have challenged the Christian church to rethink the way we do church and how we communicate the message of Christ to a secular culture. We should not accept all that these pastors teach without thoughtful and prayerful consideration, but we do not need to fear their influence on the American church.

I recently attended Willow Creek’s Leadership Summit, their annual leadership conference. In the final session, Bill Hybels closed his talk by saying that there are two words that church leaders must understand and communicate. I was expecting some kind of sensational leadership phrase or a two-word marketing strategy, but when Hybels revealed the two words, I was shocked. The words were: “substitutionary atonement.” He then went into a discussion about the importance of communicate the truth that Jesus died on the cross as our substitute and that his blood covers our sin. Not only was this a truth pulled from the historic, biblical Christian faith, it was communicated using weighty theological terms. How orthodox for a seeker-loving innovator!

Derek Vreeland

The "destructive" nature of the seeker-sensitive movement

This is a letter to the editor that ran in the Americus-Times Recorder August, 20, 2006 concerning the destructive nature of seeker-oriented churches....

There is a destructive movement on now in many parts of the world, but especially in the United States, to redefine what the Christian church has been for centuries. It is called the "seeker friendly church," the "seeker sensitive church," or the "seeker friendly" or "seeker sensitive movement” and is many times introduced as a church growth tool. It has maimed some people and scarred others, spiritually.

An Internet search for "seeker friendly church" will inundate you with information, but a mature Christian will soon understand the need to read and take to heart what is available there.

The destruction usually starts slowly, subtly and continues until "the frog is unknowingly boiled to death." If you've never heard tlie story of the boiled frog, it goes something like this: A pot of cold water is placed on the stove, a frog is placed in it, and the heat is turned on "low." Gradually, the heat is raised until the frog is cooked to death.

It may serve you well to take your own church's temperature by comparing the traits below to actions within your own church to see if your "heat is slowly being raised."

1. The church leadership may point out that you need a new, larger more modern building at a new location. This may or may not be true, but it will certainly be impressive.

2. They may point out that you need to update or create a new church logo. It will many times include a contemporary rendition of a cross that is a little sloppier in design than the traditional pictures of the cross that you are used to. The original cross was by no means attractive, but it was well built.

3. They may point out that your church needs to target the younger people, young families, 20- to 40-year-olds. This point may be introduced through a church growth seminar with an outside moderator or church growth expert. Where does this leave our senior citizens?

4. You may actually recognize, in some instances, an introduction of New Age practices. If you're not familiar with such, you won 't recognize them. Many times they take on the shape of religious all-inclusiveness. An Internet search on the New Age Movement will again give you much information. The local library would be another source.

5. You may notice other changes that are odd to you, but you can't put your finger on what’s different or why they don't feel right.

6. Should you point these out to church leadership, you may be identified as a "resistor" and told, "If you don't like what's going on here, you can leave." Loss of membership is to be expected in a church desiring growth.

7. Unfortunately, the book "The Purpose Driven Life," by Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in California, will sometimes usher in or be linked to the changes you see in your church. It reads well at first glance, but look again. Also, the Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois seems to be heavily involved.

8. Your church may be engaging in "feel-good" activities to draw more people to church but then not giving them the meat of the Bible for fear of hurting their feelings. Go to the Bible and see what Jesus said to them ... it wasn't always pretty, but it was always the truth and always for their good because He loved them enough to not leave them in the condition they were in.

9. You may notice people in your church falling into the deception of these traits that you never would have dreamed would be involved, people you love, people with whom this may cause a break in relationship, people you thought would have been able to "see it coming" and helped the church avoid such destruction.

10. A relatively new version of the Bible, called The Message, is used in a large number of seeker friendly churches. If you will compare your favorite version with many scriptures in The Message, you will find that much has been added to The Message, for example, I Corinthians 6:9, where, not only was an idea added, but the existing idea was muddied and made unclear. There are many others, but to save space I've only included this one. If you would like to compare scripture from almost any version of the Bible with The Message, www.biblegateway.com is an excellent resource. It includes The Message version.

There are other signs, but these are some of the more obvious. Not every seeker friendly church will have all these traits; they are all different, but they will all have some of the traits.

You may think that I am resistant to change, that I'm old fashioned, an old fuddy duddy that wants things to go on as they are forever. In some cases, you may be right, but in this case I feel like the church is turning away from becoming Christlike, as He's told us to be. Jesus talked with ALL people: all ages, all colors, male and female, people of all beliefs or no beliefs, whomever he came into contact with. He simply talked with them and gave them the truth ... and He did it in love. He never told them, "If you don't like it, you can leave," but they did always know they had a choice. Do we really need to get away from all that?

Satan wants to take as many people to hell with him as he can because he knows that will be his final home, but he'd like to get in a few jabs at God along the way. What better way than to attack His kids and distract then from Jesus, whom he hates?

Pray for your church, love your church, pray for protection from the deception that is creeping in, but realize that at some point you may have to make a choice ... do I stay or do I go? And, by all means, realize that your battle is not against flesh and blood but against Satan (Ephesians 6:12).

Hopefully, you will understand that this has not been written in anger but with the sincere hope of saving some from the torment and heartache that many have endured in recent years. Please, please don't let this happen to you and your church.

Few things in life are more painful than being betrayed by someone you love.

June Anderson

Americus

The original article was posted on the ATR website.

Dudes and Chicks

Click here to see the "Dudes and Chicks" video interview with Mark Driscoll.

Thoughts on "Dudes and Chicks"

The above video is an interview with Mark Driscoll, the pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle. (See post: "Mark Driscoll Links for more information")

The above video is a short interview with Mark Driscoll, the pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle. The video was shot as a promo for John Piper’s Desiring God conference: “Above All Earthly Powers—The Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World." Mark has described himself as a “charismatic calvinist.” He has been in and out of postmodern discussion in the church and in discussions about the Emergent Church. I like this guy a lot. I have followed his ministry since I was in seminary and he continues to challenge me to be both theologically depth and missionally aware. I have just added his podcast to my iTunes.

He is talking about the importance of assessing church planters to see if they have the goods before you send them off to plant a church. I thought it was a good thought, but not nearly as funny as his comments about “dudes and chicks” in the church. He makes good points regarding masculinity and “dudes” in the Bible like Paul, David, John the Baptist. He is also right to say that our churches are overflowing with “chick-a-fied, church boys.” He says the primary issue in church growth is reaching young men. I can’t argue with that. I do think he goes a little far when he says if you get the young men in the church that you get everything. I think you still need targeted outreach for women and children. Plus, he makes it sound like anything that is feminine is bad, which I do no think is true. He seems to imply that women are not innovators, which I do not believe to be true. God made man -- male and female. Female (or the feminine) is a part of the goodness of God's creation. Nevertheless, Mark has some insightful and some insightfully funny things to say.(For fun, count the number of times he says “chicks” and the number of times he says “dudes.”)

Mark Driscoll Links

If you are looking for more information about Mark, here are some links:

http://theresurgence.com/blog/2 -- blog
http://www.marshillchurch.org/feeds/ -- podcast
www.amazon.com//Confessions of a Reformission Rev. -- book

Mark has launched three ministries:
http://www.marshillchurch.org/ -- church
http://theresurgence.com/ -- theological association
http://www.acts29network.org/main.html -- church planting org.

I'm so bored with little gods

I have been listening to David Crowder Band Illuminate (2003) on iTunes today and I was struck (once again) by the depth of the opening verse to “How Great.” Whenever people tell me that they have lost passion for God, for the Church, for the kingdom of God, I think it is because they are worshiping a little God. Isn’t that so true? Here is the opening verse to DCB’s “How Great.”

How Great
David Crowder Band
Illuminate
2003

I'm so bored of little gods
While standing on the edge of something large
While standing here, so close to You
We could be consumed
What a glorious day

I give up, I lay down
Rest my face upon this ground
Lift my eyes to Your sky
Rid my heart of all I hide

So sweet this surrender

There is a sermon in this--little gods of entertainment, procurement, satisfaction. What a picture. What an image. We are standing intimately close to something large, the mysterious and mighty triune God…yet we continue to fool around with these little gods that are sold to us by consumer Christianity. We buy these plastic trinkets, these little gods, and then wonder why we get bored. How ironic?!? How foolish, to try to entertain ourselves with these little gods when the living God is right here with all of his majesty and substance. God help us to be disciplined and focused on you.